For a few years now at KMC we've been calling our work Graphic Advenures, which has been met with mixed results. (Mostly with a lot of hostility) So I am going to plead the case with a very simple experiment:


Take anyone (doesn't matter if they read or not, but if you want more core results get someone who does)
and ask the very simple question: Without thinking, what is the first thing that pops into your head when someonce says comics?


The answer shouldn't surprise you. In general you should get Batman, Superman, Spiderman, Archie, etc. you get the point. Now look at your art table, con table, now unless you're drawing them (which you shouldn't, I explained why a while back on Lip Service) or drawing FOR them, what do you see?

That is what you're really competing against, a perception that has been in place for better part of a century, and had been exploited and ran into the ground by the mainstreamers to they where they aren't even trying to call their work comics anymore. Also, the negative connotation of comics and comic books outside of American society, hasn't changed much since the 50's.


Now, try this with the same person aske them what pops in their heads when you say "Graphic Adventures" and you should get a blank stare, know why they can't label it, and this is where YOU as the creator, now have a fresh canvas a truly open mind to where now you can paint your work in a even light, and this will work on those from within and outside comics, and let's face it, which would you rather face: a hard core comic book fan who can't see past Spiderman, or someone who doesn't have a predjudice thought, and would give your book a try? This is why you should start calling your work Graphic Adventures like we do, it can be applied to any work, in any genre.

Give it a try and see what happens.

Back in the 80's I used to campaign against calling minicomics, minicomics, because "comics are comics are comics" - the term "comics" is known to ANYONE as "words and pictures telling a story". I tried to tell people minicomics were just as commercially viable as any other comic.

49 issues of Dungar later, I had made ZERO inroads in that line of thinking.

"better terminology" is a lofty goal. Reminds me of when Jim Pack started up the newzine "The Comicist" to try to bring the term of the act of making comics as a hobby, to people. Some people liked it, some didn't. But here we are, and I bet now, this is the first time most of you reading this have heard that term.

I think, any time you try to present an idea on this level, you have to do it on a positive note. The presentation above is flawed by saying "calling your work comics is wrong" - no - it's not wrong. I have been making comics a long time. When a new person or parent of our kid asks what I do, I say I make comics…they do invariably say something about mainstream comics, and I then introduce the idea that I work completely as an independant, and the conversation then goes on to "how, how is that going for you" type stuff if they are interested, or, more often, talk about the weather cause they arent…lol. Telling a non-comics person that you make "graphic adventures" is solidly going to always be met with blank stares…no matter how many times you do it. What you are doing is trying to introduce the metric system to an inches and feet society. The only way to do that is teaching it to children from the start. So that's my 10 cents on the subject…interested to hear more people on it.

Ian,
Good point, not to say , that it's wrong to use comics, just saying that when you use the term. Look at what you have to go through to get to you. ( Your explanation is a case in point) then also the perception of that as well. Even now there mainstreamers are getting away from using the term, due to the negative imagery from outside pop culture. They made the bed and now they don't want to lie in it.
 The term "Graphic Adventures" really provides a short-cut through the static, if You say Graphic Adventures, people will say what's that?
Why? because they can't label they have no idea, and gives you a better opportunity to present your case, becuase now there's a blank canvas as it were for YOU to paint on.
 The real barrier is perception and images, and trigger words. Comics is a trigger word, that in my opinion narrows the view to what is established (Them) and make it harder for YOU to be seen.

I have to say I agree with Ian. The term "Graphic Adventures" sounds cool, but when you get right down to it it is still a comic. A cartoon is a graphic adventure but they still call them cartoons. Cartoons have the same negative aspects that comics do. My point is this, you can call it a "shiny new goat" but it is still a comic and you can in fact call it what you want ,but it doesn't change the artform or the way the work is presented, which is a comic. I don't think it is so much the term comic that some people don't like as much as it is the artform in general. I don't like spinach, even if you start calling it gummy bears I will still not like spinach.

I can understand the concept of calling a comic something different to gain a new audience and I can appreciate your position on this. If you approach someone that does not know what a Graphic Novel is and you say "well it is a story drawn out in a sequential form with word balloons used for character expression", The very first thing they will say is "oh it's like a comic book".

It is simply the artform that some don't appreciate, no matter what it is called.

To put it another way, everyone I know that has re-invented the wheel, still ends up with something round. And you can call it whatever you want, brand and trademark it, people are still going to call it a wheel in any language they use.

Comics were comics before superheroes. Comics are still comics no matter the content of the words or pictures. To get a non-believer of the term Graphic Adventure, to call a comic anything other than a comic…you would have to be the first person to EVER show them ANY comic, so that that was the term they used, and even then, other people are going to CORRECT that person when they say "I read a great Graphic Adventure!" and tell them, that's a comic, dude….and they will then go, oh, comic is a shorter and simpler word to use, and, everyone else recognizes it…so I should call it that or they will think I'm odd.

Yes, it's colored in peer pressure. But, I don't see any viable way to get the majority of people to stop calling comics, comics. It would be like trying to get people to stop calling tacos, tacos. Even if you put a fish in it, it's then a Fish Taco. You can brand it and call it a flurbermitt, people in any language they use, will call it a taco.

Instead of spending time trying to give it a new name, I'd much rather try to change the connotation some might have about comics by showing them what the medium can do.

Even if you get someone to stop and give you that blank stare (which is actually something I try to avoid–why do we want to confuse our customers?), as soon as you explain or show what it is you're talking about, they're going to say 'oh, comics' and you're right back where you started, only now you've given them the impression that you're either
  a) ashamed to call your work by the socially-recognized name of comics, or
  b) trying to pull something over on them by giving it a new name.

I mean, even the term Graphic Novel still gets a lot of flack, these days, both within and without the industry, for trying to put a fancy dress on what is still just a long comic book. I gladly use the term to differentiate between long-form projects and my shorter strip-form comics, but they're all still comics: panels of sequential art that tell a story.

And while I'm on the semantics of names, Adventures has it's own connotations: Indiana Jones, the Odyssey, sweeping stories of epic proportions. While it can certainly be argued that life is a daily adventure, it's not what people are going to think of.

All of you are correct, in that broken down it all about a certain point of view. I see comics as funny, enteratining, and I see Archie and the Sunday funnies, for what it's worth is your work comical? You're not Archie, and although it helps break the ice and may or may not put the person in a rigth frame of mind.  and in time given enought people tried terms can be changed . How many people say "Used cars" anymore??

They'll say "pre-owned" or "pre-driven" just because of the mental impression "used" has. The same thing here. Just try it out for fun and see what happens, who knows, might get a chuckle or two. No one ever wants to be the first, but that when you corner the most, look at Apple with the I-pod everyone waited to see if they were going to fall flat on their face, and the rest in history.

I understand it schemantics, but look at how marketing those schemantics shape, and dare I say dictate the group mind of culture. something to think about.

I'll lay out that Graphical Adventures is just too much of a mouthful to be a useful popular term. If we dont want to use "comics" which the world in any language recognizes, we need a term that is just as simple.

People still CALL used cars used cars, no matter HOW the car seller companies try to dress up new terms for them. guys in the bar still say, yea I need a new used car, my old beater's had it.

When your teenager is looking for their first vehicle, they say they want to find a decent used car. No self respecting teen is going to say to the next, "I say, let's head to the pre-owned car lot"

If you want to map a way away from the use of the word comics…you need a more viable alternative. I mean even in music, people still call collections of music…albums. individual songs, tracks. The term MP3 is a descriptive, but I dont hear my kid saying, hey dad, listen to this new mp3. I could be wrong there, or it's more local to around here, but that's what I'm seeing.

FWIW, I like the term "comics". People who don't regularly read comics understand exactly what you mean when you say "I draw comics" or "I draw comic books".

I look at what I'm doing as a continuation of a long line of comics dating back to The Yellow Kid two centuries ago. Peanuts, The X-Men, Prince Valiant, Steve Ditko, even Rob Liefeld: it's all comics. Yay for comics!

- Michael Neno

www.NenoWorld.com
http://twitter.com/Nenofsky
http://twitter.com/Nenofsky

Well Michael, most like to say comics, and yesr it's easier to say, but it comes with a connotation that support the mainstream, and the non-pop ideals, and it's too big a mechanism to fight or change. It is easier to build from a blank slate, than to fight stereotypes.

I disagree with the mainstream connotation, they were comics before the direct market made mainstream a term…they were comics before superheroes…the ARE comics…words and pictures. I think building from a blank slate is impossible, and unnecessary. And I know I have bigger fish to fry than to fight a battle against what people recognize. I'm continuing to be interested in what others think on it, but that's going to be my position I think.

Rod Jenkins said

Well Michael, most like to say comics, and yesr it's easier to say, but it comes with a connotation that support the mainstream, and the non-pop ideals, and it's too big a mechanism to fight or change. It is easier to build from a blank slate, than to fight stereotypes.

This'll also be my last post on the subject, don't want to keep dragging it on…

Maybe I'm just not understanding what you're saying, Rod (it happens). Your average person on the street doesn't even read mainstream superhero comics. When your average person on the street hears the term "comics", they'll most likely think of comics they read or watched sometime in their life, whether that's Cathy, Garfield, the Batman show, or Pokemon. I see nothing wrong with that. Newspaper comics, manga, indie comics, mainstream comics, Sailor Moon - it's all comics and anyone knows what I mean when I use the term comics. I think that's cool - that people think of comics that brought them joy in their life when I say I draw comics, because that's what I want to do with my own comics.

My thinking is that instead of spending time fighting stereotypes, I instead devote my time and talents creating awesome comics. The work should speak for itself. If, along the way, the work itself fights stereotypes, that's just icing on the cake.

Mike:

That is what it is supposed to be, and I couldn't agree with you more. It has been our experiance of folsk having a pre-conceived notion, and then being taken for a loss when the see our work. Not all the time. We're just putting a bug in a few ears that may give folks a different way of doing things that may prove easier in getting their message acorss.

Rod, This is an interesting topic, and as you mentioned before it all comes down to culture. You spoke of making a cultural change pertaining to comics by changing what they are called. What your proposing is a great idea but we really need to look at what it takes to change a culture especially when that culture has roots over a 100 years old. When analyzing the transformation of a culture, it is clear that different understandings are gained depending on the focus. Start with the perspective of trying to understand how manufactured things, such as comics, are invented and modified in design over time.  It is apparent that there rarely are entirely new inventions in any industry.  Most of the time, only the function, form, or principle is new, but not all three.  When cultures change, they can have major impacts on the environment.  Similarly, when the environment changes, there are likely to be impacts on culture.  For example, I am 37 years old and when I was a child or even in high school, if you took comics books out of your backpack you were considered a nerd or dork. Back then it was not cool to like comics or super heroes. You did not see comic book related merchandise in most major stores. You would not have seen converse making super hero edition shoes. The point is comics and super heroes are cooler now than ever before, whether you are a true fan of the form or just like the T-shirts. So why in the last 20 years has owning comics or hero related material been so widely excepted? This is because companies like Marvel and DC control the comic environment and in turn the culture associated with it and they will for as long as we live. The bigger companies realized the negative impact of comics on culture and have worked very hard over the years to correct this through creative marketing and mainstream distribution of comic associated merchandise. The single biggest factor in this change is film, when the films started hitting the movie going environment it changed the culture world wide. In my opinion as long as Marvel Comics is called "Marvel Comics"  and the art form stays what it is, then there is absolutely no way anyone will accept the product as anything but comics. You cannot change culture without changing the environment and this goes both ways. How many different religious factions are there? But we still pool them together under the name of religion. I'm just saying you can  call them what you want but in the end they are comics and no one will think other wise, unless you change the function, form, or principle and on a large enough scale to make an impact. If Marvel and DC decided tomorrow to call comics "Graphic Adventures" and removed the comics from their names then that is what they will be until they make the next change. This is just my view so take it for what it is, and I enjoyed this thread!

*accepted*

Jay:
You have some darn good points, and you're right it just not the name, but the enviroment as well. Now in talking about the enviroment, let break that down even further.

Now with Marvel and DC (even before the rodents took them over) has conrtrolled the enviroment (Much like Hitler in my opinion) to where now that enviorment is nothing about anyone else , they have created  a universe where no one else but a select few may participate. Now the also control the media, don't forget who owns them now.

What better way to predict the future? You create it and that's EXACTLY what they've done, a matrix like enviroment, and the indy's are the the rebels, fighting for the same spot, I say why bother? when you fighting a culture that has been cultivated for over a century, and the billions of dollars they have at their disposal, it is far easier to create a new culture versus fighting the establishment. History, has long recorded such look at the USA for one instance.

I know  but even within the indy world, sometimes tried and true doesn't always work, and new paths and ways come into play. Still creating good stories, with the art, and quality are paramount, but they way it is presented needs to change, just like you said Jay would it have been cool to read a comic book in public? I say it still isn't, the only reason no one says anyhting is becasue folks are afraid of what kind of reaction might happen.

I've said this before in this thread: The ONLY way to change the term Comics to something else, is to start with the young that have never heard the term before, and even then, they will likely be corrected to use comics by older folks that use the term. The Term INDY COMICS has come a long way in differentiating between superhero mainstream, and other stuff, in the public mind.

Bringing youthful readers to the work of indy creators is the only thing that will grow our field. The LAST thing I want to be doing is also fighting a battle to have them call the work Graphical Adventures, as well as just interesting them in supporting notoriously unorganized, here today, gone tomorrow, titles.

At this point, I think I need to see ONE OTHER PERSON besides Rod, who thinks starting to call comics, graphical adventures, is a great idea…anyone?

Ian
While you're right by starting with the youth, however, in order to make it stick, older people have to start as well, even if its on a non-committal basis. Young folk will cath and latch on just becuase it something new and different and not old soundin'. and when marketed right the whole change can be affected. Just like Mervel and DC did. So can we, and it wouldn't have to take a boat load of money either.

I polled a few creators at C2E2 about the name change out of about 10 or so folks, (couldn't get more had to run the table 'n' stuff) it was about 50/50 with the those wanting to know more, and there's the hook (wanting to know more). One the primary things from Dale Carnegie " How to Win Friends and Influence people" (if you've never read that book I GREATLY suggest you do) arouse  a want.

I know Ian you'd agree that creating a want is essential for independents, or anyone trying to sell a product. So notwithstanding comic readers can be a fickle and jaded bunch, it had been our experience when we approach people and say Graphic Adventures, their eyes light up becuase they've never heard of it and they want to know more (aroused want) and then, they might buy, at the very least we have their undivided attention.

"graphic adventures" sounds more like an anthology title than a description of the genre. That is a tough one, indeed.

Ptahotep,

While it is a mouthful, the wording is the basic essence of comics embellished a bit, comics are Graphic, stories are adventures are they not? So it is a matter of potato, potato, type deal. For us so many have told we don't produce comics and trying to "Fit In", it is easier to make our own path, a lot of times it is easier to plow apath on untrodden snow versus a path already trodden upon.