I actually don't know much about it all...and could use a full briefing on the ins and outs of it all... Ian Shires, CEO P.O. Box 214 Madison, OH 44057
We need a "roving" reporter. lol. Roger Foucault My website: {{Click URL Link}} Co-Admin of "Self Publisher Association" Facebook group (aka 'SPAF') located here: {{Click URL Link}}
Join our SPAF CHAT nights every Monday night, 8 p.m. Eastern Standard time!!
Dimestore should totally be its own WOWIO and subsidize costs with some advertising.
But as far as the whole hubbub, I was never a part of it, but a friend of mine used to be, but she pulled out because they don't have the free downloads plus some other enigmatic writing in the terms of agreement. My Wrestling Webcomic My Wrestling Webcomic, Rival Angels! Updated every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
PDF download previews available right on product pages in the distro is completely possible...the extent to which the PDF gives away the book can be left completely open to the publisher individually. We plan to "lead by example" in the SPA Comics titles, and see how it catches on. Ian Shires, CEO P.O. Box 214 Madison, OH 44057
I think what Albone was suggesting was to mimic the old Wowio deal -- free downloads of books were supported by ad sales (their system would place different ads directly in the PDFs, depending on what ads were being run by sponsors at the time) and publishers would receive 50 cents per download from Wowio. It was free for the consumer, but the publishers were still paid for each book downloaded. If you could do that you'd probably have a huge line of publishers beating down your door.
M
[ Edited Wed Aug 27 2008, 08:50PM ] Mat Nastos, Super Genius Nifty Comics {{Click URL Link}}
So all we need are advertisers who can afford to pay like 60 cents per download, so we can actually have a successful sustainable business model.
Um...I wonder how we can accomplish that! especially in the light that THEY couldn't sustain that.
The Dimestore Distro model of things has never tried to copy any other distribution model. It would take serious convincing and probably partners in it, to make any dramatic departure from what we've been working to launch.
As Mat knows, I've always been a big fan of starting things smaller and building up. The "start big to be big" thing always seems to end with the next big thing failing, and making it harder for publishers to believe in something that could work. Ian Shires, CEO P.O. Box 214 Madison, OH 44057
I know Jim Main was using it for a few of his titles and I used it for something recently and didn't see a difference. DOC Boucher http://www.inter-fan.org
Mat got where I was going with that, but then again, he's a super genius. (And more affiliate articles man!)
It's true that WOWIO couldn't sustain itself with the .50 cents a download model.. I'm sure they were living on startup capital.
Again, talking with my friend, I asked her what would be better: Going through WOWIO, or, selling advertising yourself and offering free pdf downloads. I went on and said, what if I sold $200 worth of advertising in my pdf to be downloaded. She answered that her pdf's (more than one issue) had been up on WOWIO and even though they were spotlighted on the front page of WOWIO (that would be {{Click URL Link}}) she hasn't made $200 yet and I got the impression that it wasn't even close.
If you only take this into consideration, it seems like its something to look into. I'm sure there's a very good reason why nobody else is doing their own pdf downloads, subsidizing with advertising and that I just haven't figured out why.
[ Edited Thu Aug 28 2008, 07:58AM ] My Wrestling Webcomic My Wrestling Webcomic, Rival Angels! Updated every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
I wonder if it's time for the SPA to revisit the AD BANK idea we started investigating before the original run of the Printing Service died.
If we had a system that placed ads in both printed and PDF books, which advertisers knew the ads were being seen, even a 20 cents per ad cost could pay out like 15 cents to the publisher, and then 200 downloads would get the publisher $30.00 profit. The main problem to overcome then, is having enough advertiser support to keep ads available for everyone that was using the system...and how to insert, dynamically at download, an advertisement into a PDF...
The Print ad part is much easier to get going, due to the simple nature of having a publisher about to print a print run request an ad page, and we fill that request with an ad that is available.
The PDF part, we would need more information on.
I am also considering moving THIS part of the conversation out of the "so what about Wowio" thread, and starting a new thread for it.
And with the simple AD BOOK we want to do not getting enough advertising support yet to make it a green light project, I wonder if it is time to address the AD BANK and add PDF to it, yet.
Ideas are great, support is better. If we want great things, we have to work together to make them happen. That's what the SPA was founded for. Ian Shires, CEO P.O. Box 214 Madison, OH 44057
It was possible to make decent money on Wowio with their previous model. I know of a number of publishers who were pulling in a couple of thousand a month. Being successful with it, like any publishing, had to do a little with the quality of your book and a lot to do with the marketing you did to support it.
You're right about not being able to sustain the model...I was surprised they lasted as long as they did doing it.
As to why it really isn't being done yet (or being done effectively) is because to attract high enough paying advertisers you need to have a fairly large traffic base first. Most people are trying to do it the other way -- find advertisers to support the product and then attempting to build traffic.
And, there will be some new marketing stuff up soon, as well as a book on marketing comic books. I'll be moving the majority of the comic-related articles over to the Comic Book Marketing (http://
www.comicbookmarketi
ng.com) website, but it isn't live yet.
Like any good investor (aka 'advertisor'), researching the market potential, as in 'volume', is indeed an attractive feature to garnering advertising support. So if we can prove high volume, consistent traffic, as mentioned, we might be able to capture that advertising appeal. Roger Foucault My website: {{Click URL Link}} Co-Admin of "Self Publisher Association" Facebook group (aka 'SPAF') located here: {{Click URL Link}}
Join our SPAF CHAT nights every Monday night, 8 p.m. Eastern Standard time!!
I actually don't know much about it all...and could use a full briefing on the ins and outs of it all...
wowio offered free digital comics in pdf format. Some creators/publishers were actually making substantial profits from the service.
Platinum Studios ended up buying wowio. If you don't know, Platinum Studios are the creator-rapists who run the comic book challenge. They are currently sitting on thousands of properties that they have swindled from hard working creators. But I digress..
wowio shut down for about a month, then re-launched with a sort of different system. Comic are still free to read online, but if you want to download it to your computer is now costs a buck.
Well, Traffic is ALWAYS what advertising is all about.
I should write a book and sell it, but then I always give my ideas away free here...
I think we'll be showing plenty of traffic once SP! Launches, we have a Distro Catalog, and a few other tidbits fall into place here at Dimestore. I think we're on the verge of being able to do some real good in the marketplace. Ian Shires, CEO P.O. Box 214 Madison, OH 44057
I think you're talking about a different demographic for traffic here versus what you'd need to get big advertising. You'd really need to come up with a way to bring in mainstream buyers or find an active "buyer" demographic. The comic book creator/publisher crowd that comes through here is a bit small and notoriously short on spending money...two factors that will scare off more advertisers that they will attract. In other words, traffic here is looking to figure out how to MAKE money instead of spend it.
You'd have to figure out what your target niche or niches are and then build specific websites for each of those niches, using keyword targeting and all that fun internet marketing stuff, and build traffic that way. A mass "comic book" approach really won't work because the search term is a bit too broad (meaning it isn't a "buyers" term) and there really isn't a big enough search market for it to support a lot of advertising.
The site is currently good for what it is -- a place for people who are either referred here or already know it exists -- but not for attracting a new or wider audience. That's not a bad thing at all, they are just two different business models. Diamond's model is very similar to what is here -- display product for those already looking for it and do so in a non search engine friendly format. This completely works for the current industry model.
With a bit of little bit of insight, a comic distributor could easily build a site with a plan for attracting new customers who are outside the comic book industry, but as far as I've seen none are doing that yet. This site (and Haven Distro if they are reading) has a great opportunity to alter how business is done because it probably already realizes that people in the comic industry are not looking for indie comics to buy -- in other words, if you produce an indie title you've got little to no chance of actually building an audience large enough to make a living from it. At least not in the comic industry.
Luckily, while the mainstream may not be looking for comic books specifically, they are always on the look out for content and entertainment with no real preference as to what its delivery method is. And, the best part is that by targeting a mainstream audience you're not limiting yourself to the 50,000 or so active comic book buyers there are in the US -- you're opening up your potential readership 1000 fold or more.
Targeting those alternative niches, making your product available, accessible and (just as important) findable to them is the key to success.
Of course, all of that takes us way off course of the Wowio comment I posted. I had been looking for experience and thoughts of others who either have worked with them in the past or are currently working with them. I know DJ Coffman completely dropped out of Wowio and he had been one of Platinum's golden boys last year.
Eoeio always seemed to me like a desperate move for most of the cases. Trying to make a little something for a project you're not confident about, or you know that wont sell that good or at all if printed.
Wanna show your work? U have a lot of alternatives, like comicspace or deviantart. You want to play by your own terms? Make a website exclusively for that project.
For me, you can find in Wowio publishers who are new and they wanna measure their stuff by the money they'll make there, publishers who tried to be succesfull on print and failed, artists who werent accepted by a publisher or artists who are new and think that their comic will make them a fortune by the millions of views that their "unique and awesome" idea will easily bring.
I think you're talking about a different demographic for traffic here versus what you'd need to get big advertising. You'd really need to come up with a way to bring in mainstream buyers or find an active "buyer" demographic. The comic book creator/publisher crowd that comes through here is a bit small and notoriously short on spending money...two factors that will scare off more advertisers that they will attract. In other words, traffic here is looking to figure out how to MAKE money instead of spend it.
well, see, you're imposing your PERCEPTION of what you think traffic here is and will be, and not the actual traffic we have, or take into account the other 4 sites that make up the overall dimestore family of sites, which traffic crosses and the advertising is seen on all of it. It's my worry and job to change that perception...I'm not worried that it will be done. our demographics will be in cross breeding every aspect.
wrote ...
You'd have to figure out what your target niche or niches are and then build specific websites for each of those niches, using keyword targeting and all that fun internet marketing stuff, and build traffic that way. A mass "comic book" approach really won't work because the search term is a bit too broad (meaning it isn't a "buyers" term) and there really isn't a big enough search market for it to support a lot of advertising.
again, we're well on the way with that.
wrote ...
The site is currently good for what it is -- a place for people who are either referred here or already know it exists -- but not for attracting a new or wider audience. That's not a bad thing at all, they are just two different business models. Diamond's model is very similar to what is here -- display product for those already looking for it and do so in a non search engine friendly format. This completely works for the current industry model.
we have lots of ways new traffic gets exposed here all the time. Idol continues to be a huge traffic boost, and we settle at a higher level of "maintained" audience each year. I'll hit critical mass, you watch. We're close to having webcomics, and have other features coming, that will make Dimestore truly unique. Again, you seem to be running off of memory of things we've done, and not looking at everything going on.
wrote ...
With a bit of little bit of insight, a comic distributor could easily build a site with a plan for attracting new customers who are outside the comic book industry, but as far as I've seen none are doing that yet. This site (and Haven Distro if they are reading) has a great opportunity to alter how business is done because it probably already realizes that people in the comic industry are not looking for indie comics to buy -- in other words, if you produce an indie title you've got little to no chance of actually building an audience large enough to make a living from it. At least not in the comic industry.
We have specific plans. We aren't, however, telling some of them, because Haven HAS been reading, in fact, I helped nudge Haven into existence, and gave away lots of my ideas to Lance in a period I thought we might work together on things. I have some things in mind to target and bring in new readers to new titles, we'll see how fast we can get them into the mix.
wrote ...
Luckily, while the mainstream may not be looking for comic books specifically, they are always on the look out for content and entertainment with no real preference as to what its delivery method is. And, the best part is that by targeting a mainstream audience you're not limiting yourself to the 50,000 or so active comic book buyers there are in the US -- you're opening up your potential readership 1000 fold or more.
I've been repeating the mantra "there are more people who would like my comic than there are people who read comics" for 20 years. I continue to believe that. Biggest stumbling block on the way to them is economics.
wrote ...
Targeting those alternative niches, making your product available, accessible and (just as important) findable to them is the key to success.
and now we've locked into that area of things we completely agree on
wrote ...
Of course, all of that takes us way off course of the Wowio comment I posted. I had been looking for experience and thoughts of others who either have worked with them in the past or are currently working with them. I know DJ Coffman completely dropped out of Wowio and he had been one of Platinum's golden boys last year.
M
Oh yea, we're talking Wowio, lol
Anyway, it sounds to me like wowio did EXACTLY what it's business plan hoped: It went out, got talent and advertisers to build a high traffic place, spending lots of $$ to do so...then, when a company offered to buy them, they cashed back out...said great, we made our $$ and let the parent company do what they saw fit with it all.
I think anyone who has ever made a comic for the indy market has a different dream: Sell the rights to the movie version to a big studio...and still do the comic version their own way.
But there is also a huge segment of HOBBY LEVEL creators, and fans, out there, that really make up the more silent majority...and a place that includes THEM in the fun, instead of focusing solely on the titles trying to go nuclear, wins the race, slowly and steadily.
At least, that's what I've been seeing with the SPA. The right mindset comes first. Then, learning what you need, then, doing what you want to do. Everyone, join hands, we're going to sing the SPA alma matter....
I know that King Tractor Press made enough $$ to break even on some single print runs. Nothing spectacular but we just started before the blow-up. Now it's dwindled to nothing. We're leaving a few books up (but not complete series) to see how it goes. I'm considering going full-blown webcomics ourselves and try to sell the ads there ourselves. I think we could definitely make more $$ as it stands now. King Tractor Press Free Webcomics
"For the last few days, word has been bubbling through the back channels that Wowio, the online comics publisher (recently acquired by Platinum Studios) is late in paying a large number of creators and publishers their second quarter payments.
In July, Platinum Studios announced it was in negotiations to acquire Wowio, which led, according to some creators, to a substantial changes in their contracts with the company which many felt would result in greatly reduced royalty checks. Other changes included new limitations on content that could be shown, which reportedly caused some creators to pull up stakes. "
I knew it would get messed up after Platinum took over.
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